EDEN True Hybrid integrated amplifier

After some days with the True Hybrid Amplifier (huh, wrong category ) "Vintage audio EDEN" by Paulo Marcelo I can say perhaps one word or two about it. The Eden is a loan by Paulo until the "Nirvana" will be finished. Conceptually, the two amps have some similarities. Both are integrated amps and have a True Hybrid input stage and a transistor output stage. But there are differences, too: while the Nirvana will have a wooden case, a MM phono input and three separated transformers for each stage, the Eden has a more usual metal case with acrylic front and a very nice Zen design and no phono input.

Putting the Eden into the system gave me instantly a tad of the magic sound I heard in Patricks's system at my visit in Montpellier, but lacked at first the feeling of ultimate transparency and energy. Apparently the system has to be retuned. I played around with other cables and adjusted the speaker positioning minimally. The Eden responded very directly to changes and soon I ended up with simple solid core interconnect and speaker cables. These cables tended to sound a bit thin and pale with other amps but with Eden they sounded very coherent, straight and subtle with lot of energy.

I can say that the Eden goes much further than any other amp I heard in my system. It reveals tiniest details without exaggerating any frequency range and sounds always smooth and grainless. A very, very refined amp and totally transparent to the recording.

To be continued.

So, can I assume a purchase in the near future?

My curiosity is about the headphone amp even if I must say that I'm really happy with the one I have and that was also designed by Paulo.

Hi António,

The Eden is no more available. But my Nirvana will be even better...

Cheers
Manfred

mannitheear escreveu:

Hi António,

The Eden is no more available. But my Nirvana will be even better...

Cheers
Manfred

Cheers and Happy New Year to you Manfred.


Alles gute alter Freund und ich hoffe das du auch in 2016 bei unserer kleinen analoge Gemeinde dabei bist.

Happy New Year to you all!

And thanks to AAP the year 2015 was the year where the endless search for better sound got a final perspective!!!!

mannitheear escreveu:

...Putting the Eden into the system ...

To be continued.

It will be nice to see a photo. Cheers and Happy New Year Man !!!

Some photos:

Eden



System

mannitheear escreveu:

...

Nice that one!...  it's the "Holy Trinity" !!!... and your stands seem's quite well made, and fit perfectly...

Manfred,
Your year is definitely off to a great start!

Super stuff indeed. The amp design (Eden...) somewhat reminds me the great CAT SL1... but certainly superior in sound...
After experimenting many floorstanding speakers, I also found my ultimate way in a monitor type speakers... and I do not think to change in the near future...

Congratulations

Mister W escreveu:

Manfred,
Your year is definitely off to a great start!

Super stuff indeed. The amp design (Eden...) somewhat reminds me the great CAT SL1... but certainly superior in sound...  
After experimenting many floorstanding speakers, I also found my ultimate way in a monitor type speakers... and I do not think to change in the near future...

Congratulations

Nice to hear from you here! Which type of Monitors do you use?

I can see the Proac speaker with a very nice stand, but i can see something else...
... what i am seeing on the background is a Tannoy speaker?

mannitheear escreveu:

Mister W escreveu:

Manfred,
Your year is definitely off to a great start!

Super stuff indeed. The amp design (Eden...) somewhat reminds me the great CAT SL1... but certainly superior in sound...  
After experimenting many floorstanding speakers, I also found my ultimate way in a monitor type speakers... and I do not think to change in the near future...

Congratulations

Nice to hear from you here! Which type of Monitors do you use?

These little babies:

PMC 20 22

José Miguel escreveu:

but i can see something else...
... what i am seeing on the background is a Tannoy speaker?

Hi José,

yes, it's the Turnberry SE. Very nice speakers but since the ProAc are here they didn't have much play time.

Mister W escreveu:

These little babies:

PMC 20 22

Nice! I heard many good things about PMC but never he'd to chance to audition a PMC speaker by myself.

Nice effect with Eden: I don't have the slightest hum on both phono paths, MM and MC, even with volume fully cranked up. Seems that Eden and the Brutus phono stages have both a proper ground design.

mannitheear escreveu:

José Miguel escreveu:

but i can see something else...
... what i am seeing on the background is a Tannoy speaker?

Hi José,

yes, it's the Turnberry SE. Very nice speakers but since the ProAc are here they didn't have much play time.

I really like the British aesthetic of the brand...
I don't want to compare, but Tannoy its a really coll toy

mannitheear escreveu:

Mister W escreveu:

These little babies:

PMC 20 22

Nice! I heard many good things about PMC but never he'd to chance to audition a PMC speaker by myself.

This is one of the best speakers I have ever auditioned.

António José da Silva escreveu:

... This is one of the best speakers I have ever auditioned.

Therefore you must buy a pair if you love them... and congratulations Mister W for your new toys !!!...

TD124 escreveu:

António José da Silva escreveu:

... This is one of the best speakers I have ever auditioned.

Therefore you must buy a pair if you love them... and congratulations Mister W for your new toys !!!...

They are not new, I already have them for around three years... or more...

I think António is exaggerating a bit... He probably meant they are one of the best within the price range. ... but still, that's highly subjective, especially in what speakers concerns...

Nao sejas mauzinho ... Essas monitoras tocam bem .

Qualquer pessoa que procure umas monitoras de grande qualidade, dentro de um valor não estratosferico, estas PMC são sem duvida umas das melhores opções que tenho ouvido. Gosto mesmo muito de ouvir musica na sala do Mister W.

António José da Silva escreveu:

Qualquer pessoa que procure umas monitoras de grande qualidade, dentro de um valor não estratosferico, estas PMC são sem duvida umas das melhores opções que tenho ouvido. Gosto mesmo muito de ouvir musica na sala do Mister W.  

És sempre bem-vindo... desde que pagues o almocito...

Mister W escreveu:

És sempre bem-vindo... desde que pagues o almocito...

Bom, também não são assim tãããããããão boas.

The different reproduction of the Eden made a repositioning of the speakers necessary. Some cm more apart and some degrees more toe in made finally a great difference.

Listening to well known discs or files is very interesting. The Eden digs much deeper into the recording and reveals many things which remained obscure with my other amps.

To my great surprise, the difference between vinyl and digital files is shrinking.

While some objectivists claim, that "all amps sound the same" if they are technically o.k., my experiences showed me that this isn't the case.
I always had the impression that many amplifiers restrict the music in some way by adding either their own sound signature or removing subtleties from the music or usually both.

Contrary to that, Eden is extraordinary transparent, sonical and musical.

Cheers
Manfred

mannitheear escreveu:

...
To my great surprise, the difference between vinyl and digital files is shrinking. ...

Since long time, i've heard people who wanted to make DAC's sound in an analogue way... or in a reverse way, i've always wanted that my vinyle setup sounds as good DAC's do!... so maybe this is the answer of your feelings!...  cos, there are few ways to make HiFi, but a lot to make audio...

mannitheear escreveu:

...  While some objectivists claim, that "all amps sound the same" if they are technically o.k., my experiences showed me that this isn't the case.  ...

Those who say that aren't in the confidence of amplification problems, cos the amplifier is the HiFi gear were the most unknowns and differences exists..., cos to say that an amplifier (even with similar specs) Triode SE or PP, Pentode SE or PP, OTL, Transistor PP with Fet or Bipolar's or SE, Switching amplifier, Class of working, negative feedback or not... and not talking about hybrid's true or not in all this configurations... sound in a similar way, its just kidding and nosense!..., cos its easier that a DD sounds as a belt drive, than a Triode PP sounds as a class B McIntosh amplifier tubes or not!!!...

Its easier to speek... but much more difficult to proof some easy words on the internet web!...

Cheers Man, and glad that you're OK now!

António José da Silva escreveu:

mannitheear escreveu:

Mister W escreveu:

These little babies:

PMC 20 22

Nice! I heard many good things about PMC but never he'd to chance to audition a PMC speaker by myself.

This is one of the best speakers I have ever auditioned.

You really should get out more...

Sem menosprezar as colunas em questão, claro.

R

mannitheear escreveu:

Listening to well known discs or files is very interesting. The Eden digs much deeper into the recording and reveals many things which remained obscure with my other amps.

Just for the sake of curiosity, what are the comparison group aka other amps?

tfonseca escreveu:

Just for the sake of curiosity, what are the comparison group aka other amps?

The other amps are a Stst Agmen Preamp with Icepower switching power amp, a Reussenzehn Tube Slave S (PP with 5881 tubes) and a Sony STR-DB790 AVR, which worked quite good with Tannoy Turnberry. Further a small SMSL-SA98E. Each of these has it's strengths, but after listening a few days with one amp I feeled always  the urge to switch to another.
With the Eden I have the impression to hear all of the recording in every aspect. The tonal colours are more specific, the stage is big, clearly layered in the depth and absolutely stable. Each voice or instrument has it's distinct place and even in complex passages louder instruments do not obscure quiet ones. Piano is extraordinary well defined and powerful. Eden can be shockingly dynamic - if it's on the recording.

Cheers
Manfred

mannitheear escreveu:

tfonseca escreveu:

Just for the sake of curiosity, what are the comparison group aka other amps?

The other amps are a Stst Agmen Preamp with Icepower switching power amp, a Reussenzehn Tube Slave S (PP with 5881 tubes) and a Sony STR-DB790 AVR, which worked quite good with Tannoy Turnberry. Further a small SMSL-SA98E. Each of these has it's strengths, but after listening a few days with one amp I feeled always  the urge to switch to another.
With the Eden I have the impression to hear all of the recording in every aspect. The tonal colours are more specific, the stage is big, clearly layered in the depth and absolutely stable. Each voice or instrument has it's distinct place and even in complex passages louder instruments do not obscure quiet ones. Piano is extraordinary well defined and powerful. Eden can be shockingly dynamic - if it's on the recording.

Cheers
Manfred

So, I can assume that you finally found your Eden paradise.

António José da Silva escreveu:

...
So, I can assume that you finally found your Eden paradise.

No, he prefers Nirvana rather then Eden as a paradise...

António José da Silva escreveu:

So, I can assume that you finally found your Eden paradise.

Hi António,

Eden is a wonderful amplifier I could happily live with! But it's Paulo's own prototype unit and not for sale. He loaned it kindly to me until the Nirvana will be finished.
At the moment our friend Paulo is very excited about his latest "toy" amplifier, which turned out more a Japanese knife blade than a toy...

Cheers
Manfred

mannitheear escreveu:

,,,more a Japanese knife blade...

Careful, don´t cut yourself.

The litle christmas toy!?!?
The tube amp with low power and high precision?

José Miguel escreveu:

The litle christmas toy!?!?
The tube amp with low power and high precision?

Its not a toy!... its hell on earth!!... its the emperor of luxury and pleasure!!!... The diabolic music angel

And its not so powerless, cos 20 watts per channel its already a good motor

TD124 escreveu:

José Miguel escreveu:

The litle christmas toy!?!?
The tube amp with low power and high precision?

Its not a toy!... its hell on earth!!... its the emperor of luxury and pleasure!!!... The diabolic music angel

And its not so powerless, cos 20 watts per channel its already a good motor

Minha culpa!!!
Fiquei com a ideia que tinha construído um amplificador de 2/3 watts por canal... Uma nova experiência.

20 por canal é mais do que precisava em casa, já ouvi/ouvimos com menos de metade, colunas voigt pipe - full range - e o som era uma maravilha

Esse "inferno" tem muita pinta, lá em casa despertou o interesse pela luz... A válvula... Bela imagem!!!



Mudei a língua, mas a trabalhar escrevo mais rápido em português...

This weekend I had the first serious listening with Tannoy Turnberry powered by Eden. In short: my Tannoys never sounded so open, taut, big and effortless!
One strength of the Tannoy is the treble. Eden lets the famous TW (tulip waveguide) sound simply excellent: bright, clear and effortless without grain, veil or harshness. And the bass! Deep, full, but much more muscular, linear and defined than what I've got from other amps. Bass-heavy music like Leonard Cohen's A Thousand Kisses Deep was a luxurious bath in music and sound waves, but even at higher spl always clearly defined and never vague or blurred. Room resonances were no issue at all. On A Walk on the Wild Side (plain german "nice price" pressing) Lou Reed's voice was sonor, nicely centered in the middle without breaking up in the "esses". The female background voices were nicely separated and layered behind, sounding very lively and real. And while I thought the saxophone was a bit overload, it remained totally clean and without harshness (for the first time on this pressing).
Because of that cleanness of the sound I could listen quite loud for a longer time without any stress on the ear or listening fatigue while the sonic stage remained always stable and subtle details were clearly audible in complex passages. Aside from Rock it was a treat to listen to strings and big orchestra.
But while the Eden managed the difficult midrange of the Tannoy very good and managed piano (John Taylor "Rosslyn") better than other amps it was also clear that the Turnberry isn't as linear, neutral and honest as the Proac. In direct comparison, recordings like the Beatles Album of the King's singers sounded very good but were not so spacious, dynamic and to the point as with the Proac Tablette because the Turnberry tends to give male voices a bit of extra sonority and chest volume.

Hi there!

Very nice words, the comparison between speakers it’s understandable and… A movie scene, joust!!! I can imagine the combat between two armoured knights (speakers) on horseback

You said one thing very important “I could listen quite loud for a longer time without any stress on the ear or listening fatigue”, so I’m asking: the Tannoy for the pleasure/flesh time and the Proac to yield to reason?

I know this is a tricky question, but the eyes don’t tell you anything?

I already told here, I really love the Tannoy’s…

To be continued...!?!?

Yes, please!!!



ps.: this is about the amplifier, The Eden!!!, and i don´t forget that. Without the Eden we don´t have the same experience of Earth!!! – for the good and bad reasons…

José Miguel escreveu:

You said one thing very important “I could listen quite loud for a longer time without any stress on the ear or listening fatigue”, so I’m asking: the Tannoy for the pleasure/flesh time and the Proac to yield to reason?

I know this is a tricky question, but the eyes don’t tell you anything?

I already told here, I really love the Tannoy’s…  

Dear José,

I love my Tannoys, too and would like to hear more about yout setup! (which model do you have, which amplifier, cables etc., photos!!!) Is there a thread in the forum?

The question is difficult, because I haven't been listening to the Tannoys for a longer time. I'll try it anyway: the ProAc is a bit more on the intellectual and the Tannoy more on the sensual side.
With complex and more filigrane music like choral works, baroque and old music, chamber music, lyrical jazz and every kind of piano music I would prefer the Proac almost without hesitation and in every state of mood. Piano is addictive on ProAc. (...but the Denon one point recording of Händel's Concerti Grossi sounded anyway amazing with the Tannoy, too).
For rock, church organ, bass orgies and on full blast the Tannoy is a temptation. It's not only about bass, as I mentioned, I'm also in love with the treble of the Tannoy which is imho superior to usual dome tweeters. Cymbals, bells, trumpets etc. sound very real, stressless, shining and refined at any volume level!

Cheers
Manfred

mannitheear escreveu:

... but even at higher spl always clearly defined and never vague or blurred. Room resonances were no issue at all. ...

You've just putted the finger in a very important thing, and its about bass speed. When the low frequencies are rapid, controlled and accurate... the room resonances become less a problem, and the other frequencies aren't anymore masked by the low resonances...   and clearly music lives!!!  

José Miguel escreveu:

...
I know this is a tricky question, but the eyes don’t tell you anything?
I already told here, I really love the Tannoy’s…  ...

My prefered speakers (for the eyes...) are the Guarnieri's !... and my prefered speakers (for the ear's...) are the ProAc's, so i've made a choice... and since a speaker its not a decoration object for me, but a music reproducer the choice was fast and clear... so and without regrets i live a calm/exiciting relationship with the Signature's...

Of course, the ideal is a beautiful object with an amazing sound !... but they are rare, very rare, very very rare... and sometimes expensive, very expensive, very very expensive ...

TD124 escreveu:

mannitheear escreveu:

... but even at higher spl always clearly defined and never vague or blurred. Room resonances were no issue at all. ...

You've just putted the finger in a very important thing, and its about bass speed. When the low frequencies are rapid, controlled and accurate... the room resonances become less a problem, and the other frequencies aren't anymore masked by the low resonances...   and clearly music lives!!!  

The Turnberry is healthy in the bass -.but Eden does the magic!
This kind of bass control wasn't there with tube PP, solid state Mono blocks or Icepower switching amp.

Hi Manfred and Paulo!

Don’t misunderstand my questions, I already said something like that: the music first. That’s why I asked: “the Tannoy for the pleasure/flesh time and the Proac to yield to reason?”
Manfred I don’t have nothing to compare with your system, if you can imagine a “stairway to heaven” you will undersand one thing: I am in the first step and I am a very, very curious man!!!
The image shows our receiver and turntable…

Pioneer SX-880 and Lenco L78.
I am, we are, very proud of our pieces, but we know things, things… one cable can pay (yes!!!) all we have – the picture don´t reveals the speakers – Pioneer CS-66e and KEF Chorale’s.
I am always showing this pieces when I put a record… We have thoughts, but know the configuration is that one.
I am sick and I don´t have pictures of the speakers here with me, but it is very easy to find…

I know Tannoy speakers, but I don´t know Proac… I really like the sound of the oldest Tannoy’s, but I can´t afford a pair. I recognize yours because of the aesthetics, if you remember that.

Here we have one typical sound, not a tropical sound… not the most realistic sound, but we spend hours in front of the speakers together and we like.
We want more??? Of course and with baby steps we will touch “Eden” (the garden, because the amplifier is occupied).

We are not at the same step, but who wants to learn must be curious and I am.
Ask by ask, learning…  that's me!!!

Other characteristics of Eden which are clearly audible with both speakers are the overall purity of sound, the attention on nuances and subtle details and the rock solid imaging at complex passages.
And - it doesn't waste much energy and does get only slightly warm.

José Miguel escreveu:

Hi Manfred and Paulo!

Don’t misunderstand my questions, I already said something like that: the music first. That’s why I asked: “the Tannoy for the pleasure/flesh time and the Proac to yield to reason?”
Manfred I don’t have nothing to compare with your system, if you can imagine a “stairway to heaven” you will undersand one thing: I am in the first step and I am a very, very curious man!!!
The image shows our receiver and turntable…

Pioneer SX-880 and Lenco L78.
I am, we are, very proud of our pieces, but we know things, things… one cable can pay (yes!!!) all we have – the picture don´t reveals the speakers – Pioneer CS-66e and KEF Chorale’s.
I am always showing this pieces when I put a record… We have thoughts, but know the configuration is that one.
I am sick and I don´t have pictures of the speakers here with me, but it is very easy to find…

I know Tannoy speakers, but I don´t know Proac… I really like the sound of the oldest Tannoy’s, but I can´t afford a pair. I recognize yours because of the aesthetics, if you remember that.

Here we have one typical sound, not a tropical sound… not the most realistic sound, but we spend hours in front of the speakers together and we like.
We want more??? Of course and with baby steps we will touch “Eden” (the garden, because the amplifier is occupied).

We are not at the same step, but who wants to learn must be curious and I am.
Ask by ask, learning…  that's me!!!

Hi José,

thanks for sharing! Nice to hear that your system brings the music to your hearts, that's fantastic.

I hope for your sake, that your learning curve is faster than mine was! Almost 35 years ago we learned from the High Ender people that Lenco is cheap crap and not good. Now, 35 years later the Anti-Lenco solved all my turntable issues!!! Funny, isn't it?

mannitheear escreveu:

Other characteristics of Eden which are clearly audible with both speakers are the overall purity of sound,  the attention on nuances and subtle details and the rock solid imaging at complex passages.
  ...

Your words, puts a real pressure and challenge on Nirvana's sound !... but i put my coin on the budist paradise, Oouummmm !!!!!!!..

TD124 escreveu:

Your words, puts a real pressure and challenge on Nirvana's sound !... but i put my coin on the budist paradise, Oouummmm !!!!!!!..

I'm sure, Nirvana will easily outperform Eden, audible even for the deaf.

mannitheear escreveu:

TD124 escreveu:

Your words, puts a real pressure and challenge on Nirvana's sound !... but i put my coin on the budist paradise, Oouummmm !!!!!!!..

I'm sure, Nirvana will easily outperform Eden, audible even for the deaf.

There is no pressure at all.

mannitheear escreveu:

...
I'm sure, Nirvana will easily outperform Eden, audible even for the deaf.

Yeeh!, it is heaven... even for a non budist, cos its a delicate mix of Paradise & Hell !!!...

António José da Silva escreveu:

... There is no pressure at all.

Well, do it better than the others its one thing..., but better than what i did some years ago i think that is possible; or i'm becoming deaf or/and hasbeen !

TD124 escreveu:

António José da Silva escreveu:

... There is no pressure at all.

Well, do it better than the others its one thing..., but better than what i did some years ago i think that is possible; or i'm becoming deaf or/and hasbeen !

You're lucky: Cos I'm a bit older than you, the process of becoming deaf is even more advanced.